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Hi,
Since my forum isn't "popular" 
I decided to post it here. I was thinking, if my OS is completed (e.g. capability of running APPS), what apps am I going to port ? And to be curious what apps are you going to port when your OS is capable of running APPS ?
I start off as usual 
Programs to port: FASM, NASM, a C compiler, Midknight Commander, and amp, a linux command line mp3 player which is fast (too bad it isn't maintained anymore), a game ?
To add to the list, programs I want to write for my OS (when my OS can do that): webserver, irc client (well, all sorts of chat like IRC and MSN), mm and of course a game, GUI ?
I'm not sure about the last list, but I think it is.
DennisCGc.
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Talking about programs I'd like to see early running on a OS mmm
I think that it should be first self-hosted ( you should be able to develop from inside your OS )
So assembler, hex editor, text editor, compiler if your OS is not ASM-written, base libs.
Then some questions:
Which type of OS is yours?
A desktop OS will need a GUI, some base apps ( browser, mail, office )
A gaming OS will need graphics and sound drivers and libraries.
A network-based OS will need net utils ( firewall, servers, net analyzers )
That's to say that if you make an OS designed for a server use, you'll see few people interested in porting OpenOffice to it at the very beginning...
My OS for example will be a test for some new concepts I have in mind about how an OS should work.
So I'll make dev tools and general utilities ( packaging, utility routines such as compression/decompression, a really basic shell to control the OS at low level ) first.
Then, having my OS self-hosted, I'd like to have a browser ( even just a lynx-clone at the start ), a mail reading program, IRC ( to maintain contacts ) and a music player ( mod player, too ).
Then maybe I will not need linux anymore hehe...
Axel
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"Dex4u" is at a stage where it can run APPS, but so busy with adding to the kernel, that i have no time for APPS, i have tyred to find game programmers or demo programmers to make a demo, but it never appands, they do not even try the OS, so its not like they do not like it .
I thought when i started making a OS, that there was a gap between people who had learnt on dos, but needed to move on to better graphics and more memory etc, but did not like windows, but it seem you need a good demo first to show what the OS can do, its like the chicken & egg.
I am working on jpeg code at the moment, so i can have great graphic with out the size, this will take me months it very complected code 
, but this will help me when i come to mpegs and mp3 etc .
ps: @DennisCGc, forgot you had a forum i try and pop in, noteiced you still have my interview 
, also noticed that one of your pc had a AC97 sound card, may be you could try my driver i made, it will come in Handy for your mp3 player.
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Hi,
AxelDominator wrote:
Which type of OS is yours?
Good question, combination between a network OS and a "desktop" OS. I forgot a text editor (mm, not exactly, it's included in Midknight Commander)
Oh, I forgot the webbrowser. Links (not lynx, but links , more advanced IMO)
Dex4u wrote:
I am working on jpeg code at the moment, so i can have great graphic with out the size, this will take me months it very complected code
mm, you're talking about algorithms ? I think MP3 has a Fraunhauser Algorithm. Have to find some information about it though.
Dex4u wrote:
ps: @DennisCGc, forgot you had a forum i try and pop in, noteiced you still have my interview
Thanks, but I want to do it myself eventually.. I still appreciate your help though. I think I have to look at the documents again
DennisCGc.
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I'd like to think that far in advance where I am porting tools and application, but I can't see past my device manager at the moment. So the quick list would be a math too or simulator, like MatLab or MathCad. Things along those lines interest me...and since I am hobby-ing a somewhat DOS-ish OS these types of tools should run much faster on a system without as much overhead like Windows or Linux.
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My first ported program would be fasm. And then I'll write a texteditor.
Right now I'm trying to port a DOS game called pitman to Dex4u, as I haven't
really done anything to deserve the admin title on his forum.. :S
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bubach wrote:
My first ported program would be fasm. And then I'll write a texteditor.
Right now I'm trying to port a DOS game called pitman to Dex4u, as I haven't
really done anything to deserve the admin title on his forum.. :S
Boy, you know I should had said FASM too, as well as GRDB (nice debugger, like DEBUG).
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DennisCGc wrote:
Hi,
Since my forum isn't "popular"
Well, Dennis, I don't know much about popularity, but I suppose, in M$ terms, none of us are very popular. Even in Linux terms, we are all small potatoes.
Nevertheless, though your forum is currently lacking in visitors, I did post, yesterday a comment about your OS, and it was largely complimentary.
I wish that there was some way to get SOL and DEX and BOS and SMIDDY and DENNIS and AXEL, and ALL the rest working together on a single, solid, first class alternative to the nonsense of Linux and Windows, but I realize that is improbable.
So, I will again ask from you, and from Smiddy, and Bubach, can you please send me your source code, so that I can read what you are doing, and learn HOW you are programming? (In other words, to learn whether you have programming skills or code writing skills, or both) I have heard from DEX4u, and will download his source code later today.
Gosh, when I read the laundry list length of items you folks plan to incorporate into these nascent operating systems, I just feel a sense of disconnection, as though, for example, an interrupt had been issued, but not acknowledged. This is WAY too much effort to accomplish anything useful in one's spare time. MUCH BETTER to divide the work, AFTER a thorough review of a proper specification document. That way, each person, or team or group can focus on solving ONE problem, step by step, instead of everyone randomly copying others' mistakes, prejudices, and follies. Are all of you familiar with the wonderful book: "Developing your own 32 bit operating system", by Richard Burgess???
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de … p;n=507846
It costs about 50$. Includes an assembler, file system, etc, i.e. everything that you guys mention in your plans for the future.
It was published ten years ago: ISBN: 0672306557
regards, tom
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My source is available at the download page (one zip for img and one for source)..
Working together would be nice, it's just that everybody want to have their own
projects to be proud over, and be able to control the project 100%..
But as you can see we are helping each other out ( mental support, bits of code.. ), even if
we have seperate projects, for example I use dex4u's floppy code.
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bubach wrote:
....
Working together would be nice, it's just that everybody want to have their own
projects to be proud over, and be able to control the project 100%..
But as you can see we are helping each other out ( mental support, bits of code.. ), even if
we have seperate projects, for example I use dex4u's floppy code.
Well, and of course, you are correct. But this way, a year from now, or maybe two years from now, we will have half an operating system, that does some things almost correctly, but nothing well enough to be practical, i.e. yet another dismal failure.
Maybe I am too pessimistic.
I certainly HOPE everyone succeeds.
I understand the inability to forge a common link, using a single forum to communicate, with the code documented in a rigourous fashion, following an elaborately detailed specification.....
Europe, unlike North America, has a certain heritage: common belief in organization, in method, in unification. But Europe also has this long tradition of separate small countries, each fiercely independent, unwilling to change for the common good.
USA, and to a lesser extent, Canada, has gone "WILD WEST", no interest in working together with anyone, as the recent debacle in Iraq revealed so clearly to everyone. What I seek DID EXIST, at one time, about a hundred years ago. SOLIDARITY. These days, no one is interested in such nonsense. Yeah, I am about a hundred years behind the times....I should have been at the Paris Commune....
WHICH PART OF DEX4U's FLOPPY CODE do you use? regards, tom
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bubach wrote:
Right now I'm trying to port a DOS game called pitman to Dex4u,
look forward to trying pitman on "Dex4u"
as I haven'treally done anything to deserve the admin title on his forum.. :S
You underestimate the value of of support when things are not work and you feel like giving up.
@smiddy, if your thinking about porting fasm to your OS and you already have not got this doc you should get it and keep it safe http://board.flatassembler.net/topic.php?t=1972
@tomtobias, the idea of a group of people making a asm OS togeather is dead, there are basically two types of people into OS dev, one group are made up of people who want to group togeather to make a OS, but do not have the knowledge, and group two are made up of people that have the knowledge, but want to do it there way , so build on there own.,
By all of us going in differant directions, we can see what work or does not work.
eg: i would only conceder int function call, but when a number of people were using call table, i thought i should give them a try, and i find that they work great and only use ints for a small number of functions, like loading the call table address.
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Dex4u wrote:
the idea of a group of people making a asm OS togeather is dead, there are basically two types of people into OS dev, one group are made up of people who want to group togeather to make a OS, but do not have the knowledge, and group two are made up of people that have the knowledge, but want to do it there way , so build on there own.,
By all of us going in differant directions, we can see what work or does not work.
eg: i would only conceder int function call, but when a number of people were using call table, i thought i should give them a try, and i find that they work great and only use ints for a small number of functions, like loading the call table address.
Yes, you are correct, and I am wrong.
I have now downloaded your source code, THANKS, and would like to ask you about sending some comments, questions, criticisms of that code. Would you prefer to have such questions directed initially to you by private message, or, do you prefer that I send my questions and comments initially to the forum?
My preference would be to follow your protocol, since you are the author, and therefore, if it is easier for you to respond to questions in the forum than individually by private messages, I have no objection. Alternatively, some folks prefer to initially scan the comments, opinions, and questions, to ensure their suitability for the forum, prior to posting in public. Either way works for me. regards, tom
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It depends on how critical you'r gonna be..
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Question: Is that your code with the @@ PISS POOR in my opinion!!! Frankly, I doubt that you wrote it. If you did write it, then, in my opinion, you ought to include some sort of explanation in the comment section. If you did not write it, please indicate FROM WHOM you obtained such wretched nonsense.
Question: JMP @f what is that??? Where is that??? Obviously, if it is a jump to someplace not in kernel.asm, then one MUST explain that fact as a comment. I have no idea WHERE we are jumping, nor can I explain WHY we are jumping. Kernel.asm REPRESENTS CODE, not a program!!!!! (because I read it, but cannot understand it, just as real code is supposed to function--i.e. only the author can comprehend it)
I would perfer you read and understand the fasm manual before wasting my time with stuff, you would understand if you had read it, also that you send me your asm OS, so i can go other it with a fine tooth comb and add my comments, you have coded your own OS ???????.
Have a nice day tom .
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Lol...
You can use @@ in the same way as when you add a dot in front of labels, when you run out of
"free" names.
If I for example have this code:
print: pushad mov stuff, stuff mov more, more print_loop: mov 0xb8000, stuff loop print_loop
Maybe the label name "print_loop" is taken (used somewhere else), then I could
come up with something else as the label name, or I could use the dot or @@.
With a dot in front of the label name, it becomes like a sublabel to the "print"
function. It can then be reached by ".print_loop" in the print function or by writing
"print.print_loop" anywhere else in the program.
The @@ stuff works in a similar way. When you don't know what to name labels
etc. you can simply call it "@@". An example:
mov ax, 42 @@: mov ax, 42 mov ax, 42 jmp @b ; jumps back, up to the @@ above.. ........ mov ax, 42 jmp @f ; jumps to the nearest @@, forward (down)... mov ax, 42 mov ax, 42 @@: mov ax, 42
And it's not exactly "piss poor" if you know how it works..
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Dex4u wrote:
I would perfer you read and understand the fasm manual before wasting my time with stuff, you would understand if you had read it, also that you send me your asm OS, so i can go other it with a fine tooth comb and add my comments, you have coded your own OS ???????.
Have a nice day tom
Thanks DEX, for those who do not understand, let me explain as DEX should have: The quote in DEX's message above this one, was sent by me to DEX as a private message, to inquire WHETHER or not he wanted me to offer my opinion, and, if so, whether or not he wanted that opinion submitted by private message or in a public forum. The quotes supplied by DEX constitute only a portion of the entire message, and unfortunately, he declined to include the remainder of the message. The whole message appears below.
I think it is disingenuous to post a private message to a public forum without first conferring with the party who sent the private message. In this specific instance, I wrote what I thought was a private communication to DEX, very forthrightly, condemning what I saw as poor programming practice, and expecting to hear back from DEX whether or not this type of criticism was too harsh. Well, I learned the answer to that question. Obviously, I have now removed all of DEX's code from my computers, and will no longer participate in his forum, as I have no desire to cause anyone discomfort by expressing my honest opinion.
READING THE FASM MANUAL:
Hmm. That's interesting. What does the FASM manual have to do with DEX's kernel???
Does DEX imply that his kernel will only assemble with FASM? OK, no problem if so, BUT WHY? Why would anyone place assembler specific code in the kernel of their OS?
WHY IS IT NECESSARY for anyone to read a third party's documentation to understand DEX's kernel design? What I expected to read, was not some gobbledygook from FASM, but rather a specification of features and advantages of DEX4u OS.
WARNING: IF YOU DO NOT LIKE TO READ CRITICISMS, please don't read my posts.
I will not submit anymore questions or comments to this forum, until Bubach clarifies his preference, as it is not my desire to cause anyone annoyance by my comments.
regards, tom
p.s.
HERE IS THE ENTIRE PRIVATE MESSAGE sent to DEX this morning:
Hi Craig,
that is your name, right? Do you prefer that I refer to you as DEX??
I have just begun looking at the kernel.asm code, it is a little early here in USA, about 06:40, and I have some chores to attend to, so I won't get back to this interesting opportunity, until later on, but, I wanted to ask a couple of questions here:
First of all, I hope you will not be offended if I ask some questions, or if I offer some opinion/advice, about your program kernel.asm. If you prefer, I will keep my opinions to myself, and simply ask questions for clarification. Some people are a little touchy on receiving critical remarks!!!!
Just to get going: I liked the fact that you identify Gryzstar and Bogdan and others as having contributed to this particular piece of code, BUT, it would be better if one could indicate individual lines of code, or modules' authorship. That's an opinion, and a criticism, maybe you prefer not to read those kinds of comments from me.
Please let me know if so. I am not concerned or nervous or worried about frankness, and overt sarcasm or annoyance or irritation, does not offend me, so you need not be concerned that expressing yourself bluntly will be considered discourteous by me.
Question: Why do you juxtapose the INCLUDE files between real mode and protected mode code? Why not, for example, have the include files at the outset of kernel.asm????
n.b. (nota bene) If you did not have the INCLUDE files there, you would not require the JMP instruction to a location which corresponds to the very next instruction. HMM??? Gosh, do you really need that JMP, EVEN if the INCLUDE files are there????
Question: Is that your code with the @@ business??????? PISS POOR in my opinion!!! Frankly, I doubt that you wrote it. If you did write it, then, in my opinion, you ought to include some sort of explanation in the comment section. If you did not write it, please indicate FROM WHOM you obtained such wretched nonsense.
Question: JMP @f what is that??? Where is that??? Obviously, if it is a jump to someplace not in kernel.asm, then one MUST explain that fact as a comment. I have no idea WHERE we are jumping, nor can I explain WHY we are jumping. Kernel.asm REPRESENTS CODE, not a program!!!!! (because I read it, but cannot understand it, just as real code is supposed to function--i.e. only the author can comprehend it)
Vis a vis our brief discussion yesterday, re dec x 2 versus sub x 1, I guess my point of view is ALSO this: whether or not one uses dec or sub, the important point is to EXPLAIN WHY one is subtracting WHICH value to accomplish WHAT goal. your comment should explain HOW this subtraction (or dual decrementing) modifies program execution.
So, this is an illustration of the sort of badgering and questioning I will ask, IS IT TOO TIRESOME, and a waste of your time????? If so, no problem, I can keep my opinions to myself, and relegate my occasional question to the forum, as you prefer.
regards, tom
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bubach wrote:
...
And it's not exactly "piss poor" if you know how it works..
Thanks very much for your excellent clarification, much appreciated.
WOOPS. COMPLETELY disagree. 100% out of phase.
ABSOLUTELY not.
no punctuation substitution for words in a PROGRAM.
YUP, lots of punctuation in CODE.
FASM is code.
IF you want to write CODE, fine, then no problem, I don't wish to antagonize anyone by expressing my opinions.
For me, it is an utter waste of time to read code. I don't have enough spare time to wade through nonsense, written by folks who have no understanding of the abc's of programming.
SO, yes, it remains "PISS POOR", or, in the case of FASM, piss POUR, because there's lots of CODE in FASM, and very little program.
What I seek is a person who understands either (a) what programming is, or, alternatively, (b) the fact that he/she does NOT know what programming is, AND would like to learn.
I am not seeking someone who believes that substituting CODE for a program is worthwhile. regards, tom
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I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what the heck
you wrote above..
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Mmm maybe you're referring to CODE=assembly language and PROGRAM=...Visual Basic?!?
tomtobias wrote:
FASM is CODE
FASM is assembly... so until now my assumption of CODE=assembly is correct.
tomtobias wrote:
IF you want to write CODE
CODE=Assembly there, too
tomtobias wrote:
For me, it is an utter waste of time to read code.
So we have a solution! Write a kernel in C, in C++, in Pascal, in Visual Basic. ( but NOT COBOL ! O_O )
But you can't force a guy to write his own OS in a high level language for all to read. CODE ( assembly ) can be equally nice to read if you follow the mmm Tao of Programming
Don't do violence to the source or the Ying and Yang will cast a curse on you
Axel
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Come on guys, relax!
Tomtobias: I don't get your terms called "code" and "program". Could you please explain them, tia.
As for the rest of the posts; I think you (tomtobias) sounded too harsh, not to offend you. But it's my opinion.. Somehow it was wrong of Dex4u to quote only a part of the PM.. but come on, how do you think you acted when you read that in a PM which was sent to you ?
Anyway, you're allowed to critize my assembly code/whatever-you-want-to-call-it as soon as I have 0.2 released (without the pre-alpha thingy).
I'll send the source when it's released to you, and some other guys who are interested.
DennisCGc.
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